Fasting Diet

Does fasting diet work?

East Stop Eat. Intermittent Fasting Program

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East Stop Eat. Intermittent Fasting Program

East Stop Eat. Intermittent Fasting Program

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Fasting diet and lose weight. There are no serious side effects are consequences to fasting if there was we would have known about it several thousand years ago we’ve always been trained that you have to eat you happy you have to eat we are completely wrong on this there’s actually a huge benefits that we weren’t recognizing the the results have been unbelievable I mean people come in we see people all the time and take them off all their medications you know they’re losing weight they’re finding it easy to have so much energy and it’s just been incredible could one of the oldest dietary interventions in the world have a profound and beneficial influence on your help hi this is doctor helping you take control of your health and today we’re joined by Jason phone who I’m very excited to connect with today because he’s written a book about fasting and it’s just been published and that’s really one of the most important books i think that you could read foremost for most people to stick jumpstart your way to health so welcome so much you’re welcome thank you so much for joining us today thank you very much so happy to be here yeah yeah so that you know that if angrily let me give you a little intro to with respect to your background your your nephrologist and mp4 nephrologist and how to intermittent fasting diet you know it’s interesting we’ve interviewed Richard Johnson I think twice before who’s done a lot of work in this area in and with respect the importance of limiting sugar and it being such a catalyst but he’s also a nephrologist so there’s something about the frolics questioning these things so that the but you you actually saw a lot of fasting diet how much weight loss patients with diabetes you’re trained in toronto then digit training a postgraduate training and in the United States how many calories fasting diet but you’re practicing now in Toronto and that’s your you’re really one of the pioneers in this incredible intervention and really developing the the the practical guidelines health benefits clinical guidelines on how to implement it on fasting which is the answer to the question i pronounce that are offered at the beginning so why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your background and how you got into this because it’s a fascinating story and and i really wanna engage with a lot of great questions and help people understand it’s important opportunity to improve their health yeah absolutely so as you mentioned on the kidney specialist but i did my training how to intermittent fasting diet in toronto then I went to university of California Los Angeles for a couple of years and I came back and practice much like a conventional physician for about 15 years so as a kidney doctor I see a lot of type 2 diabetes because I far away type 2 diabetes is the biggest cause of kidney failure so putting people on dialysis I saw a lot of type 2 diabetes and it rapidly became clear that I wasn’t really doing a lot of good because the thing is that people would have their type 2 diabetes and they take all their medications they take their insulin and so on and despite their best efforts and my best efforts they still continue to get their complications they get their kidney disease they go blind they get the amputations and how does fasting diet work all of it and as a doctor we kind of got trained to look for medications and you know give medications but it obviously wasn’t working and I don’t know why you know it seems so obvious now that wasn’t obvious to me then the answer is actually pretty obvious because if diabetes type 2 predominantly is what’s causing the kidney disease that you’re not going to be able to do anything about the kidney disease until you get rid of the diabetes so that was kind of where I started and then I thought for a second well everybody says type 2 diabetes is this chronic kind of progressive disease it’s like age right you can’t get younger it only goes forward one way but actually when you think about it type 2 diabetes actually wasn’t like that at all because it’s very easy because if somebody comes into my office and says you know dog after I lost 50 pounds and I took myself off of my metformin my diabetes is all gone right and I can measure their blood Sugar’s I can see their fasting diet benefits diabetes Olcott i’m not going to say hey you’re just a big liar right products chronic and progressive it doesn’t happen right I’d say oh that’s great so again when you look at the root cause of east if you want to get rid of the type 2 diabetes you have to get rid of the obesity so that’s where the money is right that’s how you’re going to help people get better so then I started kind of going back and thinking about what causes weight gain and so my first book which was the obesity code was really all about what causes weight gain it’s certainly not calories everybody thinks it’s all about calories all about colors it actually has very little to do with calories that’s our big mistake and that’s why we’ve been so unsuccessful at creating weight loss because we’ve got the wrong kind of target they’re always targeting calories but it’s not that so it’s really about the hormonal balance and predominantly about insulin so we have to reduce incidence low-carbohydrate diets our way to lower incidence of reducing sugar for sure and reducing these refined grains and certain other things will lower your insulin and in some people do very well in some people over $TIME * diabetes and so on so that’s kind of how i started so i started using low carbohydrate diet and it didn’t really work and I problem was it was that it was a little complicated for people i was taking these people who some of whom are you know 70 years old to have cooked the same way and eating the same way for you know 70 years and some of them didn’t speak English and it really was just a little complicated for them would say oh you know you should follow carbohydrate diet they come back with her with their food diaries and is full of rice and bread right it’s like oh ok well you obviously didn’t fasting diet benefits understand so then I thought well if the point is not to follow car . the point is to make these people better and in this case you have to have to make it simpler right so something that people would understand because i don’t think that many of my patients really understood what was going on there not you know on the internet reading all about nutrition right there’s you know grandmothers and grandfathers don’t let me interrupt here to bicker just to give their audience and a better understanding of your patients because you are practicing in Canada so that’s a social system we’re there everyone is essentially is covered for their healthcare and I’m wondering this is part of this isn’t that they have opportunity to interact with the nutritionist or dietician was that part of the program that is part of the program but unfortunately a lot of the conventional nutritional is not very successful most of it is based on you know here we have the canada food diet which is very similar to the guide dietary guidelines for americans which was again mostly calorie base which is mostly low fat diets and unfortunately they didn’t lose weight their diabetes was not improved they did have access but unfortunately the the the information was not entirely correct that also you you couldn’t pick the dietitians who would be aligned with your dietary management principles did you have your stock with a system that really pushed preaching the the conventional model which we can reach basically seriously conflicted with your recommendations oh absolutely i think the same thing happens and you know pretty well everywhere in the world the dietitians were actually summer them who might have agreed with me we’re actually quite worried that their college that there are regulating body would come down on them if they started talking about low-carbohydrate diets and so on so very i actually had a lot of trouble with the was that for a little while excuse me for interrupting but the tim know who’s a physician in south africa is actually undergoing litigation right now as we speak it from dietitians out there who are seeking to take his license away for espousing the same principles that you’re recommending with respect to low carbohydrates to help control their way obesity and diabetes oh absolutely it’s it’s a you know it’s a tough world out there and I know professor notes he’s you know wonderful yeah she wrote the forward to the obesity code my previous books oh absolutely you have to be a little careful and that’s the thing everybody wants to kind of protect their turf so that I kind of moved on from there I said well if the low-carbohydrate diets are not going to be I know they can be successful but they weren’t successful so the point was not to make them follow a low-carb diet the point was to fasting diet benefits make them healthier so I thought well if it’s not working the low carbohydrate diet isn’t working it’s not that it wasn’t working for them it’s just that they couldn’t follow it properly then I thought well what about fasting and at first when I thought about it I thought well that’s really crazy but then I kind of thought began for a second that well what’s really crazy about it right because it’s one of the most ancient dietary interventions has been used for thousands of years there are so many people fasting diet for weight loss that do it for spiritual or religious purposes what was really wrong with it why are we so against it and so I started looking back at some of the science and I realized that hey we are completely wrong on this there’s actually a huge benefits that we weren’t recognizing part of it was also that we’ve always been trained that you have to eat a happy you have to eat but in fact that’s not true like simple logic tells you that because if you think about it in the old days like the caveman days for example there are being lots and lots of days for people to eat and that’s really what fat is really simply stored fuel stored food energy so we’re using it that’s it that’s all that
happens and there’s no serious side effects are consequences to fasting if it there was we would have known about it several thousand years ago but there wasn’t so that’s where I started from and then i implemented in my in my practice and in fact that the results have been unbelievable I mean people come and we see people all the time i take them off all their medications you know they’re losing weight they’re finding it easy to have so much energy and it’s just been incredible and it’s really this is why we go into medicine to make people better and this for the first time this was happening because before for 10 years all I did was watch people get worse and worse and worse until I put him on dialysis and that was really not the way to go and that’s where that’s really where some of these ideas have come from yeah and I guess when you first saw to implement this program is there really a problem when we talked earlier you shared that there really wasn’t anything written any formal guy which is why you wrote the complete guide to fasting and he had to sort of develop these these processes by yourself and maybe can explain their process yeah absolutely so and a lot of a lot of patients have said the same thing they’re like work where can I find some information about this and there was just nothing there’s fasting diet for weight loss what sort of guidelines but problems could come up what to do about them and I think it’s because people who used to fast these sort of things would be passed on kinda from generation to generation but now it’s kind of in Los the you know almost a lost secret for example so this is the thing you had we had to take our experience and see what worked and see how people enjoyed it like there was a little bit of stuff you can go back but a lot of the data is very old lot of the literature is very old so we’ve done is we try to you know use our experience to kind of help people get through it you know and give them some guide and there’s so much that’s what awesome support to say that yes this is something that’s okay and the thing is that funny is that when people come back when people start their super skeptical they think that it’s terrible right but then they come back and they’re total converse right there like this is like the best thing because they’re losing weight they’re seeing that their their their medications are going down there sugars are going down so it’s obvious to them that they’re actually getting much much healthier and this is all without medications are trying to take away medications fasting diet for weight loss it’s an all-natural solution right and you’re really letting your body just clean itself out from all of that access sugar and side and there’s nothing wrong with it and it’s free and it’s available all we have to do is give people the knowledge and they can make themselves better which is incredible right i mean we have great drugs and you know for hepatitis C but they’re super expensive right we’re not talking about that we’re talking about something that’s available to everybody in the world as long as they have that knowledge yeah i’m not sure we have great drug for hep-c and another available but I can’t believe that the best the best approach for that is upregulated immune system which fasting and effectively implemented nutritional ketosis program will do the endpoints are pretty similar for both yeah it’s just that you’ve got two-thirds of the population of the Western world who are overweight and the third of those obese in some communities that maybe as much as eighty percent were headed in that direction so this is the subset of people i mean they could use in trichinosis as your budget is mentioned earlier is compliance is just a challenge beyond belief and the people they’re just very challenged to implement that program but the fasting allows them to do it rapidly and rather than wait weeks to many cases months to actually I up regulator system to be able to metabolize fat effectively again with fast and you can do it in days it’s like a massive jump start and you know your book is so great because it really provides them with simple basic guidelines in and review some of the myths and the dangers that people are afraid of four because and may prevent them from implemented and let one of the most business basic ones is a difference between starvation and fasting or starvation is is mandatory . test is also you can stop anytime anyone ever you want let you feel too so why don’t you go over that because what if the other and the other another important of myth is that you’re going to start burning all your muscles and that those in a difficult process in the book describes you start down regulating your your protein catabolism and actually up-regulated growth hormone is just a magnificent biochemistry so I didn’t surpass any story so what I wanted to review that for us yeah so everybody says about starvation oh yeah that’s the first reaction they said you’re gonna starve people that’s crazy right it’s like no starvation is where you don’t eat but you don’t know when you’re fasting diet for weight loss gonna eat a gap right so fasting is completely dif it’s completely voluntary and you can do for any reason whether you do for health reasons for spiritual reasons or people do hunger strikes or whatever it is you want to do you want to lose a few pounds for the red carpet go ahead you do it but if you don’t feel well you stopped starvation is totally different and it’s not healthy right starvation is what happened to you know the prisoners of war and so on they got nothing to eat and they didn’t know if they eat again ever right so that’s not healthy and that’s not good for you fasting is a because it’s a voluntary process you can control call it you can do more to last if you if you just had a cruise and you gain five pounds you can do more right but if you’re doing well and you don’t need to you can do that so that’s really important because it puts control of the disease back into your own hands where you can do it you cannot do it it’s an option for you right and that’s what I say about nutritional ketosis to it’s great i think you’ll get a lot of the same benefits but if you don’t want to go through that whole process here’s an option for you that you can just jump right into it right so it’s like a tool you can decide to use it or you can decide not to use it but don’t throw it away before ever try right that’s the whole point you can’t you can’t eliminate one of the most powerful weapons that we have in our arsenal against weight loss without even trying it right and that I think it’s you’re the worst thing like there are people who are fast and they hate it then don’t use it you don’t have to write you can do well doing other things but if you do it then do well hey that’s great you just found yourself the magic bullet for you right because we’re all different and in terms of the the myths are so many out there so one of the the big ones is that you can’t because you’re going to burn all your muscles and it simply doesn’t happen if you follow the biochemistry our body stores energy as glycogen in the liver which is links of sugar chains of sugar and then it stores body fat what happens during fasting is that you start by burning off all the glycogen in the liver which is all this sugar there’s a point there where some of the excess amino acids in your body to get burnt as well and that’s where people say well you know that’s where you’re burning muscle that’s that’s not actually what happens if you look at what happens the body never upregulates protein catabolism so never is burning muscle there’s a normal turnover that goes on over so there is a certain amount of protein that you need for a regular turnover when you start fasting that starts to go down and then what happens is you see fat oxidation go way up so in essence what you’ve done is you’ve switched over from burning sugar to burning fat once you start burning fat there’s an almost unlimited amount of calories there so you could go days and days what’s interesting is that if you take a pound of fat it’s roughly 3,500 calories so if you eat somewhere around 89 under 2,000 calories a day then it takes actually two full days of fasting to burn a sink fat which is very surprising to people so if you’re trying to lose a hundred pounds you could theoretically go 200 days of fasting just to burn all that fat that’s the amount of fasting that you’re talking about so that people worry about fasting for 24 hours I’m like yeah you can go 200 days and then it’s like okay well maybe it’s okay to go 24 hours without eating and the other major myth that comes up all the time is you’re going to go into starvation though right I hear this constantly I can’t fast because i’m going to go to starvation mode my body will start to hang onto fat and whether talking about is where the body’s metabolism starts to slow down so significantly so instead of burning 2,000 calories a day your body might burn 1000 calories a day right in that case it’s even if you’re eating only 1,500 calories a day for example you’re going to gain your weight back and that’s actually what happens during d when you reduce your calories we know that all those studies from the biggest loser all the studies from you know the last 50 years have shown that as you cut your calorie intake your calorie expenditure goes down as well and that’s if you think about it that’s actually logical because the body is smart right the body doesn’t want to die if you are you know you start off eating 2,000 calories and burning 2,000 calories and all of a sudden you start eating 1,500 calories well your body doesn’t keep burning 2,000 calories because then it’s just going to lose all its weight and
then it’s gonna die for example if you make fifty thousand dollars a year and he spent $15,000 your stiff your salary goes down to 25,000 you don’t want to keep spending fifty thousand dollars because you’re going to go bankrupt and the throne jet and the body is the same way it’s not stupid right so it will reduce it large expenditure so starvation mode actually is guaranteed if you just try and cut your calories but what’s interesting is that actual fasting doesn’t do it so what happens during fasting is that if you look at the studies after four days of fasting the basal metabolic rate is actually ten percent higher than when you started so the body has not shut down at all in fact what it’s done is that switched fuel sources such as switching from burning food to burning fat and then was burning fat is like hey there’s plenty of this stuff so let’s burn 2,000 calories because it wants to burn that 2,000 calories so that’s the really interesting part is that it’s a very ironic that the one criticism that are always always level that fasting which is that you’ll go into starvation mode is the one thing that does not happen and we see this all the time we see patients come into drag themselves in and they have no energy at all and so I’m gonna you know tell you too fast and they said but i’m so tired of it i said just try and then so they try it they come back and they’re practically running in the door they have so much energy because the problem is not that they have no energy the problem is that that’s all locked away in their fat cells and they have no access to so what we’ve done is we force the body to start accessing those stores of energy and all of a sudden there’s the body like wow there’s plenty of this stuff let’s go so we hear this all the time and it’s always a bit surprising to people that that they feel so good during the fasting like that because we’re teaching your body how to access its own stores because it’s there and that’s what it’s there for you’ve kept it locked away for so long by eating constantly your body doesn’t know how to get added so let’s teach you how to get back to using those fat stores and then it starts burning it down now it’s terrific and you know it was like just like to address the calories issue that you losing weight isn’t related calories it’s more of a hormonal problem which ties right into what you just mentioned that you do when you go into starvation you don’t go into starvation mode because it all comes back to you insulin resistance which is the fundamental foundational or mobile technology but there’s it’s your buys a very complex biochemical systems we also have there’s a tremendous interplay of other hormonal systems like mtor a million target of rapamycin ampk leptin igf-1 so all these are optimized in the right direction and your mitochondria starting happy and regenerating and and everything starts moving and you that’s why your ex so it’s not just simply turning on an enzyme switch to burn fat is a very complex process that actually just upregulates in the right direction so why don’t you go over the insolence because you discuss it quite a bit in the book and I think it really is foundational to the core what what explains the difference between fast either low calorie and fasting yeah and i think that’s the the main issue is the insulin so insulin is the main hormone that tells the body whether to store energy or to burn energy so this is a normal process when you eat you’re taking a lot of calories and and insulin goes up instant tells your body to store energy right when instant falls then it tells the body to start to release energy so what’s happening is that over time as we develop insulin resistance into the level stay high all the time right and that’s not a dietary thing necessarily because even during fasting you see that fasting insulin level stay up when you’re you have insulin resistance so instant is high your body keeps getting this signal to store energy store energy store energy well if it keeps getting the signal to store energy is never getting the signal to burn energy so therefore that’s why you feel so tired because this energy can’t come back up it’s it’s a one-way street right it can go in but it can’t come back out and that’s why people can’t lose the weight so the key to breaking this insulin resistance is actually to have sustained low periods of insulin and that’s why the fasting is so important because one it lowers insulin more powerfully than anything else because really you can’t get lower than zero right so the natural stimulus to insulin is certain foods not just carbohydrates or proteins as well you can get lower than zero so in Laura’s insulin but keeps it down for a long period of time and that’s how you kind of get rid of some of this insulin resistance and as it goes down you’re opening up that door to that energy coming back out and that’s why you start to use up some of your fat stores and you’re not hungry because you’re in essence eating your own fat and that’s the other thing that people are always surprised that when they come back is that hey I’m not actually that hungry you know and it’s like well that’s not a surprise because your body is burning fact it’s burning fat doesn’t need to eat it’s signaling your body that you don’t need to eat and therefore now you’re working with your body in terms of trying to do stopped weight so it actually answers the question of meal timing as well as the what to eat sort of question so it actually deals with a separate issue so we talked a lot about what you should eat what you shouldn’t eat but people never talk about meal timing and you know making sure that you have long periods where you’re not eating and again you can even look at the word breakfast in English right and it’s like breakfast that’s break fast that’s the meal that breaks your fast so that implies two things one is that fasting is a part of everyday life right and we forgotten that we think it’s some sort of F word right but it’s not we should be fasting everyday if you balance your periods of feeding and fasting you will stay in balance if you are always in feeding phase then you’re not going to be in balance and you’re going to gain weight so that’s what it means and the second thing it means is that you can break your fast at any time doesn’t have to be eight in the morning it doesn’t have to be seven in the morning you can break your fast at any time of the day or you can eat two days later it’s not that important but when you but but I think it’s important to realize that that you know what there’s so many kind of myths around breakfast though you have to eat you have to you have to eat and unfortunately that’s the message that’s gone out there people even when they’re not hungry are forcing themselves to eat something right a slice of toast in the morning right some sugary cereal in the morning and they’re not even hungry well forcing yourself to eat when you’re not hungry is not a winning strategy for weight loss right and you know logically it doesn’t make sense but these sort of you know a logical thoughts get kind of propagated and then and it becomes kind of conventional dietary advice right breakfast if you’re not how we eat breakfast right now you know everything so you’re absolutely so what we’re talking about fasting and we really didn’t define it because there’s a whole variety of fast which you go into in your book but for just to summarize it simply that were you with were really what you’ve been discussing previously as water fasting for for more than a few days but there’s course intermittent fasting which will touch on a bit later but i’m wondering before the water fast if you could provide us with guidelines of who should not be a candidate and up and how should be implemented as the vast majority of people watching this probably would benefit from it i would suggest the right person and we really don’t need any supervision other than the to pick up a copy of your book the complete guide to fasting but why don’t you discuss the you know the people were underweight or those are medications or any other you know like pregnant women or children that were being contraindication yeah so there’s several absolute contraindications so anybody who is underweight and that’s defined as the body mass index less than 18.5 obviously if you’re at risk of being malnourished you should write that’s just logic there are several other people the children i should generally not fast for extended periods obviously they miss one meal here and there it’s not a big deal everybody’s done that but they shouldn’t be willfully trying to go you know more than 24 hours and the reason is that the consequences are too high right the children they need nutrients to grow right if they want to try and lose weight which many do have to then cutting out refined grains cutting out sugars is the way to go fasting because it restricts all nutrients including those they may need is a risky strategy and again all throughout history people have acknowledged that and children generally do not fast like for religious purposes and so on and at the same applies to pregnant women and also breastfeeding women so there’s a whole huh you know number of reasons why you need those nutrients right and you can harm the fetus and you can harm the baby if the mother does not get adequate nutrients so the risk is too high and remember that those for pregnancy and breastfeeding it’s a time-limited situation so it’s not like you’re always going to be breastfeeding so you can wait until it’s done and then really try to get into it and there are other strategies that you can use for those people those are absolute contraindications they really should try it at all or most other people there there’s fine but there are certain people who have
to be careful so people taking medications have to be careful because some have to be taken our with food for example a lot of medications such as metal form an aspirin iron they’re often recommended to take food and you can get access stomach or even ulcers in some places you don’t take it with food so you have to be very careful if you’re taking medications in the second real caveat is those people who are on diabetic medications because if you take the same dose of medication but don’t eat you run the risk of having very low blood sugars now the very low blood sugars is very dangerous and you have to adjust your medication before you do the fasting and that’s really where you have to kind of engage your physician and get some instructions as to what to do the the one other thing that you have to be careful as it is uric acid so there can be an increase in uric acid during fasting and the reason is that the kidneys increase the reabsorption of uric acid so therefore sometimes that can precipitate know most people do fine with it but if that becomes a problem that maybe it made them at the the amount of fasting you do so there’s as you said there’s different types of fasting as well so classically its water only but there’s a number of different ones you can do and really it’s just the absence of eating but there’s the variations are kind of infinite kind of so you can do water only you can do it dry fasting so certain religious people such as ramadan the muslim faith they actually when they fast they don’t eat or drink so that’s consider a dry fast from a medical standpoint I never recommend that because it makes it much harder because you’re not only fast and you’re also getting dehydrated because you’re not getting any water so I never recommend that from a medical standpoint for religious purposes there you know there are lots of different ways to do it then there’s a what i consider kind of standard fasting which is I allow things that non-caloric fluids things like herbal teas and green teas and coffee now some people look at non-caloric sweeteners like artificial sweeteners artificial flavors and say should they be shouldn’t they be again there’s no hard and fast rules but my general or recommendation is not to include any of those a very much more popular type of fasting is what i call the fat fast which is where you only allow fat during the fasting . and it sounds really silly because fat in general pure fat is not taken by itself like we don’t generally eat a stick of butter on its own right but now with the bulletproof coffee for example you would mix in water and MCT oil or coconut oil into the hook into the coffee so you’re actually getting you can get a substantial number of calories the important thing though is not the calories per se it’s actually the instant response and what’s interesting is that dietary fat produces very little incident response so because you’re keeping insulin levels know you can actually get almost all the benefits of the fast despite taking a lot of calories as fat and potentially making it much easier to do too fast so anything that increases your probability of success i’m like i’m all for so lots of people have done very well with this sort of fat fast another variation that we use quite a bit for the longer fast particularly is to allow the use of bone broth and bone broth contains lots of proteins as well there’s gelatin and there’s all the proteins from the from bone it’s a very healthy and traditional food and the thing is that we see people who take bone broth as well as you know waters and teas and coffees and do very well if you do very well then the I I don’t have a problem is it true fasting no not really because you’re taking calories there is there there is food there there’s protein there so it’s not a true fast but that’s not my point my point is that if you’re getting the results that you want and it’s making it easier for you to stick to the program then you should do it now if you start getting bad results and it was fasting or bone broth fasting then you can go to classic water only fast right but these things are they are available they’re all variations and you really have to see what works for you and choose what works for you the best and we have people who you know find that they hating on broughton i’ll just go to water do very well in other people say wow that the the bulletproof coffee it works tremendously from you like ok do it then if you’re losing weight and you’re coming off medications why do I care that it’s not a true fast i really don’t i only care that you get better I’m really intrigued with the fat fast in fact my landscaper i recommended a water fast after three days which we need to talk about the the progression through the process of people can anticipate you know what they’re gonna expect to expect but she after three days she was really fatigued and tired which is pretty normal i put her on actually made a real-time fat bomb for her drink which wasn’t coffee I i’m not a big fan of coffee although healthy coffee is okay news berg anak and just a very small percentage bayous party argo tea which has some really interesting component because it has been a laboratory with upregulates nad+ is an important electron transfer mechanism in mitochondrial signaling to the to the nucleus but apart-er cote some coconut oil some mctc eight boil and butter and a little stevia and it’s like perked right up but it was like four or five hundred calories this one cup and she’s having like she’s having a thousand calories a day virtually no protein so no carbs so the question about you know you could use some what gave your impression but I’m warning of some if there’s some critical threshold below which this will work such and i think i ever have avocados she’s below five grams of carbs a day and below five grams of protein because of protein you think I think that’s one of the reasons is works is because if you eliminate the protein not only suppress mtor inhibitor mtor but you also are many people so many people have food allergies and that’s what’s causing it is the protein so if you eliminate the proteins it’s not an issue so what do you think about an absolute restriction limitation of the carbs and proteins are some threshold you think we’re the few you’ll still get the benefits like it over five grams 10 grams I think it’s probably individual so if you can keep it below 10 grams and 20 grams probably even you probably are doing very very well and you know i think that there’s actually some very interesting data that was looking at these sort of hero flu sort of symptoms because everybody who’s talked about ketosis there’s this thing that they talk about the keto flew into your body gets fat and I think that’s true for fasting as well and what’s interesting is looking at some data recently where they graft where your blood sugars are in relation to where your ketones are because your ketone should start to go up as your blood glucose falls but that slope actually changes in different people look at four since type 2 diabetics they have a very steep slope that is their blood glucose even as it falls and ketones don’t go up and that’s probably why they don’t they feel like crap because they’re not getting the keep tone so the blood glucose is going down which it should but the body should be producing ketones for the fuel for the brain but it’s not so in those cases some of the fat bomb someone needs margins ketones may actually make it a lot easier for people to get through that now as your body becomes adapted it can take two weeks to you know to a month kind of thing then that shouldn’t happen anymore we see the same thing in our patients and we tell them the first few times you do it don’t expect it to be a lot of fun right your body’s not used to it it can take a while to get used to it and we see the same thing in the muscle so if you look at the muscles and people have done this study where they’ve done biopsies of muscles and as you become more fat adapters you go down and down on the carbohydrates you can see actually that the gene expression in the muscles completely changes to those jeans that are using triglycerides which is fat for fuel so you can see that change happening but it’s not going to be instantaneous so if you have never fasted and you do it three day fast you may feel pretty lousy right and we tell people to expect that you can either you know continue or even take a break and let your body become more adapted to it and that’s one of the things that is one of the keys to success as you mentioned this from people to understand what to expect right if they expect a certain thing then they’ll know how to handle it for example you know how to deal with hunger constipation had acre often a problem there’s a lot of people when they’re doing the longer fast kind of break out about day too because day two is actually the hardest day we say look date is going to really suck but every day after that the hunger actually starts to go down as your body becomes the switches more and more to burning fat it becomes a lot easier than the hunger practically disappears by day five days six and then they can go on forever and once they know that they can you know kind of got it out through that day too and then start to develop the benefits for intermittent fasting for example we tell them you know we give them tips as to what to expect and what to do about it right if their stomach is always grumbling for example you might take some mineral water lot of people get cramps so we recommend magnesium and epson salts and those sort of things that people have done in the past to really help them successfully get through the fast and so we have a number of tips that we have four people and one of them and surprisingly is don’t tell anybody
that is not going to support you because this is the thing because there’s so much kind of misunderstanding if you kind of let it be known that all your fasting there’s going to be some well-meaning but uninformed person who is going to like be on your case all you can’t do that you should do that should do that in the last thing you need is somebody you know talking negative stuff in your ear all the time he doesn’t really understand what they’re doing so there there are a number of things that come up and that’s what this book was really written for is to provide that kind of I you know foundation that people can build on there also a lot of online groups where people will support each other where people can give each other tips and that kind of thing and those have been very successful as well great so one of when we were discussing the contraindications we mentioned the concerns about people taking medications and you’d confirm that many medications are designed to be taken with food but I think the more important issue with the medications is that they’re treating symptoms and guess what water fast treats the cause of what they’re taking the medications for the most common would be hypertension or diabetes so if you’re you’re eliminating the cause of course your need for the medication goes down that’s why you have to be carefully monitored and supervised by a professional understands how to do this is a great risk for you but then you had also mentioned that concerned about hypoglycemia i want to touch on this for a bit because hypoglycemia is not a specific blood sugar below which you’re going to have below which you have problems it’s a it’s really symptoms as i understand it because I were 24 our group continuous glucose monitors and sometimes when I’m really pushing my carbs I’ll go down and like almost 40 at night I mean and I’m not seem to make it all but where is you you put someone who’s hyperglycemic it before they would probably be dead yeah I don’t suspect so why don’t you to address that this issue of relative symptoms to hypoglycemia yeah we see the opposite to where people have blood glucoses that are relatively normal like a hundred and start having symptoms because they’re used to having blood glucoses of flight 180 for example and the thing is that it is the symptoms that is the most important so normal people can have very low blood blood glucose is kind of in the forties and if they’re in ketosis for example then that’s a totally normal process because the ketones are fueling the brain and everybody feels normal and there’s nothing to worry about on the other hand if you’re fasting and you are taking these medications your body should be producing enough glucose to sustain the system but if you’re taking the medications it may not and that’s the real worried that you’re not allowing the body to kind compensate on a normal basis because you are taking for example insulin if you’re taking in sledding you don’t eat your blood sugar instead of your body producing the blood sugar it will suppress that and the insulin will make blood sugar go down even further so there can be definite problems with that but i always tell people that if the blood glucose goes down their diabetic for example that’s what we want to happen but what it means is that they’re overmedicated right and so I said then we take to take away the medications and that’s great same with the blood pressure pills we see this all the time and I monitor their blood pressures of every visit because oftentimes as the weight comes down the blood pressures will come down and again I say you know that’s great that’s what we want to happen so it’s not a side effect it’s actually expected effect but you’re overmedicated let’s take off the medication and everybody’s happy to get off medication right because then and I say look if you’re taking less medication you’re getting healthier right because it means you’re treating the root cause you’re allowing your body to heal itself no now I’ve interviewed Richard Johnson nephrologist also at the University of Colorado I think he’s ahead apartment there he talks a lot about uric acid and think he’s even written papers on it and his speculation is that actually relatively high levels of uric acid can be protected because it’s somewhat like an antioxidant i understand from his description so I’m wondering if you’ve looked into being a nephrologist yourself have any issues because there’s no question your cast goes up even when you’re not water fasting because I’m I you know I I exercise a lot of my I may have 60 70 grams of carbs a day many the most days I I’m not still nutritional ketosis but my uric acid is like over nine not have any symptoms I don’t go out but if you do have had got history of its really it’s gonna be a concern so I’m wondering if you think that that when the uric acid is elevated from a healthy nutritional ketosis approach whether it’s through dietary management or elimination of calories from the fasting if that maybe actually healthy rise in uric acid this certainly could be I mean from from fasting standpoint the body starts to reclaim all of the kind of breakdown products especially the protein so you’re gases and all the other stuff kinda gets reabsorbed because nothing’s coming in so you don’t want to be using a lot of protein through your current 43 of stools right and that’s why you get for constipation that’s coming in less going out but whether or not the uric acid itself is protective is very interesting question because they’re I you know again to me it seems like the body is not so stupid as to you know oh you had nothing to eat let’s give you great it doesn’t mean that that’s a very productive sort of mechanism and my baseline bias is to say that these kind of natural mechanisms must have some protective effect right even insulin resistance and I talked about this and some of my blog writings in that insulin resistance is actually a good thing and everybody says what that’s crazy writer insulin resistance so bad like think it’s instant resistance what is it protecting us from well it’s resisting the hyperinsulinemia which is the real problem right if you have too much instant all the time our body developed resistance but the problem is not the resistance the problem is the hyperinsulinemia so you have to get an framing that problem in that way is very powerful because if you see it as a hyperinsulinemia problem then the solution becomes very obvious if the problem is too much insulin then lower the insulin if you say the problem is insulin resistance you don’t know where to go you know what do I do now right if you say the problems too much insulin then lower how no carbohydrate diets intermittent fasting and guess what you do that and all those problems of the so called insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome go away really it’s a hyperinsulinemia problem so the triglycerides goes down the central obesity goes down the blood glucose goes down the hypertension goes away so you actually take care of the entire spectrum of the metabolic syndrome by understanding that’s really about hyperinsulinemia absolutely so and into me and i’m sure you’ve seen it so many times is actually seems to be one of the variables that motivate you to pursue this this approach is that the practice and type 2 not type 1 and type 2 diabetics of prescribing insulin to me that is reprehensible medical malpractice negligence stupidity and ignorance and should result in the suspension or elimination of their physicians license because they’re just there they are prematurely killing the patients in doing nothing to help them yeah so anyway I just had to get on my soapbox for that because no one to just get so irritated when I see that it just drives me nuts you know they’re just just so foolish they don’t get it they don’t get it because you know the whole thing is that we pretend like the disease is the high blood glucose but it’s not what caused that high blood glucose was the diabetes so the thing is that if the problem is insulin resistance which we all kind of we can all agree okay let’s say type 2 diabetes is about too much insulin resistance which causes the high blood glucose blood glucose is the symptom it’s not the cause it’s a symptom so if you’re treating the symptoms but doing nothing for the cause the insulin resistance why do you think you’ll get better and the truth is they don’t write and that’s the realization came to as in what happens to standard patient you start with pre-diabetes then you go to metformin then you go to med three meds an insulin Morrison morons so over a period of ten years you’ve gone from no medications to you know a hundred units of insulin day your diabetes hasn’t gotten better it’s only gotten worse ray it’s gotten worse even if the blood glucose is normal the entire time your blood glucose still going where’s your treating the symptom and we’re not stupid enough in any other part of medicine if we have an infection which causes a fever the symptom is a fever the causes bacteria you use antibiotics you don’t use tylenol right because treating the symptom does you no good but yet we accept that in the treatment of diabetes is completely completely insane it’s like the stupidest thing but 99% of doctors do this you’re taught this in medical school your talk this and residency you know you read the papers and everybody talks about controlling the blood glucose and everybody’s like but why are you pretending that the blood glucose is the actual disease because it’s not right and here’s the thing that I always think is funny is that patients actually no it does no good right because you give them insulin the game wait then they come back and they say hey dog you gave me this insulin i gained like 30 pounds and then you say oh well exercising more the
problem wasn’t that they change their exercise routine the problem was he gave him insulin right so then they gain weight and then you get more insulin and they gain more weight that you get mortinson they know it’s not working but they can’t figure out what the solution is none other doctors will help them because everybody’s busy prescribing insulin right now the soap solution is so simple a chance to fire the doctor my someone that’s the key so why don’t we talk a little bit about the the mental clarity benefits and then and then the other component is when we fasted mentioned we become really efficient and recycling and reusing are proteins and one of those present in depth and I think everyone can accept it but one of the proteins that I was aware of until we do we discussed this previously is there are the proteins in your brain that tend to accumulate as we age and contributed alzheimers your and you had mentioned to me how your body starts to digest those proteins to such thoughts decreasing your risk for Alice number so that’s a fast any connection to expand on it yeah absolutely so one of the key concerns of people have swimming classes that they say something like oh well I need to work i can’t fast it’s like okay people think that eating gives you energy but that doesn’t make any sense because if you eat a huge Thanksgiving dinner does that mean you’re is really sharp and ready to go or are you slumped on the couch just the only thing you can do is watch a football game right so it’s not that eating gives you energy on the other hand what happens when you say you’re hungry for success are hungry for something doesn’t mean that you have no energy and you’re very slothful no it means you’re energized and ready to go that’s because you don’t have to shovel all that food in there you’re not diverting all the blood to your intestines to do the hard work of nature Christian you know you’ve got it out you’ve got it going and when you fast your intrigues your adrenaline which is one of the key hormones to really activate you the growth hormone all of that so you’re actually stimulating yourself and that’s why basal metabolism goes up because it is a state of activation so you have more energy when you fast not last and one of the other things which is becoming a fairly interesting topic is kind of dietary protein so everybody thinks protein is good i’ll protein is good but the thing is that there is a very interesting coasters called a topology where the body actually breaks down kind of old subcellular components and stuff and everybody thinks that’s bad but I actually think it’s a good thing it’s a way for your body to clean itself out from all the success of proteins you take a disease like Alzheimer’s disease and what when you look at illogically and see what the problem is there’s these neurofibrillary tangles and plaques basically all this stuff in your brain that’s all coming up your systems we you know you get the mood changes and the memory loss and all that kind of thing so if you theoretically can turn on this process which fasting and dietary protein restriction are the main things that turn it on you can actually activate this process of the topology and theoretically you can kind of clean out all this excess protein from your system and prevent alzheimer’s disease now a lot of this is theoretical but there’s actually all kinds of you know animal data there’s this data linking caloric restriction and fasting to improve memory so there’s all kinds of things it’s just a fascinating topic people talk about it for cancer prevention with along the same lines because cancer for example cannot metabolize ketones and fatty acids so if you drive those glucose levels down and let your body brought on fat well those cancer cells will starve so there’s researchers out there were looking at these ketogenic diets and these sort of diets for for cancer prevention and for epilepsy for example where it’s well proven that you in use a ketogenic diet increase the number of ketones feed your brain right and the same thing with Alzheimer’s this if the problem is that they can’t use the glucose properly well if you increase the number of ketones then you can keep the working you can keep your brainpower properly so all sorts of fascinating kind of upcoming areas that we just don’t know about and yet you know that the you know lots of you know fascinating thing because we can’t do anything about Alzheimer’s right the drugs are not good and it’s a terrible problem and it’s increasing right Alzheimer’s is increasing as it goes and nobody knows why well maybe part of the reason is our diet and what we do right with we eat all the time we don’t allow ourselves to kind of clean out these old proteins and so on we were so auntie fasting rey de have to constantly right it’s it’s it’s an interesting interesting field well let’s talk a little bit about cycles now in in life and biology because it saves you have a really committed individual and can follow does the baby does the water fast initially are not over but it end result is their nutritional ketosis it seems like it may not be the wisest strategy for someone to be a nutritional ketosis all the time even though it all sales all these magnificent benefits one primarily because the social impact we are social animals and primarily one of the things we do all the time we get together and celebrate with eating yeah birthdays holidays anniversaries so why don’t you discuss this and how and how you integrate the cycle components with with feasting and fasting so i think this is one of the things that’s really important because i actually think that successful diet are actually intermittent not continuous because the cycle of life is really intermittent right i mean this is what we talked about one of the most important things and fasting is to integrate it into your life because there are going to be times that you don’t wanna be fasting right it’s like you don’t want to be that guy who is at the wedding and he won’t eat the cake and you won’t drink the wine and he won’t eat the hors d’oeuvres and he takes you know every piece of breading off of whatever it’s just not fun right you can’t be that guy forever it’s these known as the party pooper right for the ortho wreck yeah and it’s just not the way that were supposed to do things and that’s not the cycle of life like even if you look at kind of patterns like you know you look at say Christmas it’s not a time to fast right it’s a celebration you got feast because you got to celebrate life sometimes because sometimes hey it’s just good to be alive right but then you have to follow that with a period of fasting and we do that for example you know around the time of land easter it’s a prescribed period of fasting so there are times to feast and times too fast and it just goes the same you have to balance them it’s all a matter of balance life is a matter of balance right balance at times where you eat a lot you can’t go back to normal you have to go and eat very little so if you balance periods where you eat a lot with . very little you stay in balance and you’ll do well so because life is intermittent I have to think that intermittent diets are more successful than continuous diet you can use continual diets for for a period of time but eventually I think that they’re very difficult because if you go on a cruise you go on a holiday you know what are you gonna do you can you can you can stop and not do it but it’s hard and impacts your life i once had a fellow who used to go out with his friends at lunchtime and you know hang out and stuff when he started fast he said all i got that all out i’m like no you can’t you know this is your social circle these are your friends you go and hang out with them right but if it means you skip dinner then skip dinner right because when you’re by yourself you can do that right so you have to figure out how it’s going to integrate into your own life some people long fast and have real trouble because they have dinner with their family every night then they shouldn’t do that right but if it’s not so much trouble and you like it then do it right so I i try to work with people individually because we can’t kind of say oh you have you should do this everybody should do this right because that’s not the way that life it so yeah these cycles are really important to us alright let’s go back to the man until components for a moment because in order to adopt this program i just wanted to mention 3 episode you mentioned slightly but i really emphasize the point that your hunger goes away so when you’re at the celebration is your desire your cravings you’re just too intensity for devouring this piece of cake or dessert it’s not there so you can have it is celebrating maybe have a little piece or you’re fine with it but they’re also discussed that the mental clarity because i don’t think we mentioned that literally is universal and anyone who adopts this program of this is the way of eating yeah that’s one of the things that surprises people so I had a friend he’s a physician he works in the emergency a lot and you know he had some way to lose they started doing some of the fasting and so on and he says wow this is amazing like I feel like my brain is just electric I feel like I can do anything and it’s really interesting because again as you get the ketones the brains really can metabolize them well and it really makes them function on a very high level well and this idea that it improves your mental clarity is not new what’s really interesting is that you can find mention of it all over the place so if you look at the ancient Greeks Hippocrates and all the ancient Greeks they fasted a lot but they didn’t do it to lose weight because there is really no obesity back in ancient greece it was because they they
understood that it made them think a lot better so all these ancient Greek philosophers and stuff they all fast so that they could actually think better and there’s a there’s a very interesting novel by lauren hillebrand called unbroken and talks about the prisoners of war the American prisoners of war Japan and what they described in it was the astonishing mental clarity of starvation that’s what they called it i remember i was listening to that book reflects flabbergasted because here it is a novelist you know these people that they describe a prisoner of war who for instance was reading books purely through memory that some other fellow who during the entire Norwegian language in like two days like just incredible stuff because their brain is just working like so well and it’s because of this idea that you can you know these ketones are actually a much better fuel for the brain and so on and so yeah it’s it’s it’s it’s astonishing sometimes ok let’s just maybe one last point to review is the when someone will in fact that this is a really one of the reasons this is such an effective approaches that you’re not really spending a lot i mean you’re actually its last so it’s wholly affordable is easy to do and so if a person has maybe you can come out of that but but then the second point is a person’s implement the water festive gain successfully there now transition to intermittent fasting what I discuss the difference between when you start your internet faster than six or seven hour window because when i first started this I thought well we skipped breakfast but I’ve come to realize is starting studying with mitochondria more that it’s not a good idea to stuff your spotty with food when you’re going to go into arrested regenerative repair move map mode I mean you’re going to create surplus ATP so I like to personally avoid food for a minimum of three hours and typically it’s closer to five then six hours before i go to bed yeah there’s actually some interesting data on that too if you look at insulin response so insolent drives a lot of weight gay aim but if you take the same meal at you know very close to bedtime vs in the middle of the day you actually get a higher instant response at the end of the day which is interesting which is not good so I actually think it’s best to take your biggest meal sometime in the kind of lunch too early afternoon and then really try and go easy and the nighttime meal and then into the next day so I think there’s something in that obviously the benefits that the science is not there’s not a lot of science out there but i think it really makes a lot of sense in terms of the advantages of fast and i think that the the key thing to understand is that fasting it’s not it’s it’s almost the opposite of every diet that’s out there and that’s why it’s so successful is because there’s so many advantages to it it’s a it’s not complicating your life it’s actually simplifying life right so it doesn’t cost any money in fact the same you might it doesn’t take any time in fact it saves you time because you don’t have to cook you don’t have to eat you don’t have to do anything right it doesn’t mean you don’t have to plan for it you don’t it makes it so much easier because you don’t have to wonder or what am I going to do for lunch it you know there’s so many different ways that it’s beneficial you can add it to any diet if you’re vegetarian you can still fast if you’re don’t eat not so if you have an allergy to wheat if you have you know i can’t cook you can still you can still fast right any diet can be improved by the fasting and so there’s so many different ways and it’s so powerful its limitless right so you can get continue fasting as long as you want until you get the benefits that you want like the world record is 382 days right so you can go a long time powered on your own body fat so is it going to work well if you don’t eat you’ll lose weight that’s virtually guarantee right so if you wonder whether this diet works or not well it will work right there’s no doubt about it right so the only questions left is why is it healthy for you and I think the surprising answer to most people is that yes it’s actually extremely healthy and can you do it and that’s what the book is for rights to help you that’s what online groups are for support groups and that kind of thing because literally millions of people around the world do this everyday right so Buddhists and Muslims they all have prescribed period of fasting so literally millions of people are doing this you know every mod there every week or whatever it is so if there are millions of people doing it there’s no reason why we can’t the only reason that we think we can’t that is because people tell us that we we can’t right there’s nobody out there saying yes we can you can do this there’s no problem but when you fast for a blood test the blood cholesterol test or whatever nobody says all you can’t do that or if you do a colonoscopy which is routine now and you have to fast for 48 hours nobody says well you can’t do that it’s really unhealthy for you right you just they just say well you can’t eat for 48 hours go ahead she and when there’s no problem let’s provide our viewers with a little more reinforcements and encouragement and support that suggests that this is safe so if you could just share with us how many people and i suspect the mode vast majority of people you’ve helped a really sick patient so there’s not gonna be senior colleges are seen you with it you know maybe on stage renal disease so how many people will be how tall you’ve been doing it and then is it and follow-up to that what has been the response by your medical colleagues yeah so it’s been about five years now and we’ve probably put over a thousand people on various fasting regiments some people do tremendously well we had one fellow for example he had 20 years of type 2 diabetes he was only about you know late fifties I think insulin for five years within two weeks we took them off everything all his insulin was gone and sugars were normal right so 20 years of type 2 diabetes and took it all the way in about two weeks unbelievable so then his sister saw he was doing really well so she comes in she’s on three pills for diabetes and within a month we took her off all three she takes herself off the other two blood pressure medications and cholesterol pills he took off six medications in a month and a half so it’s like that’s amazing right obviously that’s a that that that they did very well but that just goes to show you what can happen when you try some of these things so initially there’s a huge medicine at this isn’t right everybody thought I was crazy right but now it’s like I have so much support from my own local area because everybody seen the results i have lots of doctors at my hospital who are doing it and because once they see it in themselves they’re like wow this is so obvious right and so they do it then they go this is amazing so they start referring the mutations and say I want these benefits for my patient because they know they can’t provide that kind of supportive environment that we can provide that we set up in our clinic where we kind of you know anticipate their problems you know give them to support the online resources that books and all that sort of stuff to be able to do it successfully and that’s the key right is to have the acceptance because there’s so many naysayers out there who say you know you should do this you can’t do this right but within my own local area now really seeing a lot of strong support for this because it’s like it’s undeniable right people see the results and they go okay you need to do this for all my patients right that’s what that’s what the response mostly is now alright well let’s expand that support you’ve written probably the best book on the topic and it’s a book that encouragement nearly everyone to get if you’re overweight or you have any medical disease because there’s nothing else like this both the spoken guide you through it and most likely unless you’re on taking medications you don’t even need a healthcare professional consultant will help you I mean it’s always nice to have it but you would likely do it really well with yourself so and especially some of the other so the books the complete guide to fasting pick it up I mean you’re just you’re going to say the cost more than say the cost of the book by the food you’re not gonna needs so it’s free essentially and the second point is her head yeah so if you can describe any support groups or rhian line resources your site that that people might use in this process to support them in the applying or implementing the water fast yeah so yeah my website is www intensive dietary management.com so that’s i write a weekly blog and there’s a lot of information about fasting and so on and that the other side that’s very good as www.vitac.com which has a lot of information on intermittent fasting and I also write on there as well as well as that in the subscription part of it I answer questions and so on for people so it’s definitely worth checking out it’s also great site for a lot of good recipes and so on so both of those are great you know so you know everything’s there and it’s like you know what that the most important message I suppose is that all of this all of this you know health is really yours to take back right to take back from all the drug pushers and the people who just want you to take medications and to tell you that you can’t do it you’ll always have type 2 diabetes know it’s all there it’s all within your grasp right it just requires the right knowledge that’s really what you know what you provide as the knowledge for people to to to get healthy right because we have this culture sickness and drugs right absolutely well as part because of my position
on the internet my reach with millions of people I’m able to connect with really pioneering individuals like yourself who has developed these things over years and literally thousands and thousands of hours of time effort and energy to develop a process that’s is highly effective so I feel great privilege to be able to connect with people like yourself and share this with more so that more people can get healthy I mean that’s what you know as physicians we go into most all of us to at least initially that to help people get healthier and you know we eventually realize like you and I both did that the using drugs and medications only treating the symptoms almost every single time and it’s not the solution yeah absolutely that’s that’s the thing that we got off track right as physicians we in the 19th 20th century is all about drugs because we had a lot of infections right so that’s a great model you take this antibiotic you get better right but now as we go into the 21st century they’re all metabolic diseases they’re all dietary diseases the problems we’re trying to use drugs for dietary disease it’s a diet lifestyle disease and we throw drugs that and then we wonder why our drugs are no good right now it’s because the premise is entirely wrong like bringing a snorkel to a bicycle race right that’s just the wrong thing allowed to have done yeah well thank you so much it’s been a great pleasure and a privilege to connect with you today and provide such marvelous information not only in this interview but in the book which I encourage almost every one of you to get put in your library because it’s such a powerful dietary interventions been used since in ancient history so why not take advantage of its free so let’s do that let’s go out and support jason’s book and tell your friends and family about it because it’s a really powerful resource for you so thanks again to show ya thank you